Curse

sweet555 · Jun 22, 2009, 10:25 AM // 10:25

ok so im bored, and i was explaining to a friend on why i think wars are the most overpowered. ok so well heres my basic reasoning, (this pretains a lot to gvg)

Makes up for other weaknesses in other classes- Generally in gvg, if you have good wars in a gvg match, your monks can be worse, since if your wars can score kills, their team would be forced to push back, thus giving your monks time and energy as well as allowing other casters to cast, and go in a mode where some of us refer to as "balls-deep"

they can land KDs consistently- if your bad with bulls, then yeah dont think... yeah... theres always hammers. quarterknocking can be devastating, especially when your other war is pumping the other monk.

warriors have the highest DPS rate out of any class- if you dont... then your not using frenzy enough, or not using the right weapon set, or your dumb and have your strength attribute set at 0... yeah then i have no words for you

Fastest average movement speed- rangers are prty close with natural stride, but a war charges rush in 3-4 seconds with no recharge time, so moving from target to target, it has the greatest speed efficency.

2 words, Deep Wound- the most overpowered condidition in the game. if your using a Whirl axe war, you can charge up dismember prty fast, and every 7-8 seconds or perhaps faster if you know how to use frenzy, you can inflict a deep wound. around 100 damage there already, and makes monks crap their pants. no other classes can inflict deep wound this effectively. also eviscerate is an amazing skill

Linebacking- althought generally not advised to do so, cus its really just kind of retarded, you can alleviate pressure off your entire team by impeding the attacks of opposing warriors. either through hard knockdowns (suggested) or putting damage on their wars (really not recommended), wars can help the monks regain energy, casters casting key spells, and letting your team push. another method could perhaps be the body block, however this gets tricky, and if not done right, can force yourself to waste precious time to pressure.

highest armor- with having the most armor in the game, that also means the most likely to stay alive. i mean with 100 armor against pyhsical damage, and 80 armor against non physical damage, any class would have a hard time killing you.

ok so basically i told my reasons for y i think wars are just amazing in gvg. yeah my fav class is war, and yeah i play it way too much, but express love for you favorite class, being warrior or not.

also, if you dont know what im talking about, dont post, and dont be a troll either, cus your just going to look retarded.

PahaLukki · Jun 22, 2009, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet555

highest armor- with having the most armor in the game, that also means the most likely to stay alive. i mean with 100 armor against pyhsical damage, and 80 armor against non physical damage, any class would have a hard time killing you.

Hmm. There are tons of damage in GW that armor has no effect on. Most of necromancer spells are shadow or life steal, mesmers deal a lot of armor-ignoring damage through melee-counters like ineptitude and clumsiness, ineptitude making you also blind for 10 seconds and unable to deal no DPS immediately. And you are completely ignoring hex spamming that results in -10 degeneration easily, or condition spamming which also takes you to -10 degeneration. Effectively killing you 20 health a second, 5 secs for 100, 25 secs for 500 health - and all the caster has to do is run away and keep you hexed. You cannot activate rush if you can't hit for adrenaline. Enraging charge is not maintainable. Furthermore casters can do stuff like shadow form, distortion or guardian to partially or fully shield themselves from your attacks, while they continue casting. Ahh, the frustration of a shadow form assassin killing all your NPCs in Jade Quarry. You may use savage slash, but you lose 5 energy, regain it slowly and it will take another 15 seconds before you can interrupt again, and even then you probably miss the fast casting mesmers or all the 1/4 skills at least, or chances are you are blocked by some protection or blind already. KD can work if you get the adrenaline to do it. Few stand around waiting for you to do that. Bull's strike is not reliable enough (miss, or even on a hit, they get up and run after), so I've used hamstring, though it sucks as well because of unbalanced energy cost of 10 instead of 5. And 2 second cripple is something that should be in a warrior's base attack anyway to stop people from running around in circles. Stupid casters...

Unless you have monks that are not harassed and shut down, a war is really puny and will lose 1 vs 1 to a life transfer necro, weaken knees necro, to a counter-melee mesmer, or even to a condition spamming ranger. Or pretty much just about anything that can keep range and dish damage. War has shitty self-heals compared to other classes. "I will survive" does little against conditions, you have no fast hex removal at disposal without gimping your offense, the strength attribute doesn't buff the AP of your base attack, base attack doesn't interrupt casting, and interrupt-skills are slow to recharge, you cannot slow down enemies easily, WE is totally nerfed so you can't use any energy heavy tactics, your base energy regain and total amount of energy is really poor. Most of the time you are shutdown, slowed down, and degenerated to death.

Note I've mainly played Aspenwood where you can't always rely on monk backing. So, this isn't exactly on GvG. And isn't this the PvE forum?

Lux Aeterna · Jun 22, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Yup <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by PahaLukki

a war is really puny and will lose 1 vs 1 to a life transfer necro,

Last time I 1v1ed a life transfer necro he lost horribly and QQed after looking pathetic. You're dumb.

xanarot · Jun 22, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

I have to agree with the above; wars are really squishy and useless without a proper team.

The only way a war can deal damage, conditions and use rush is trough adrenaline. To generate adrenaline, he needs to hit. To hit, he cant be slowed down or blinded or face a target under protection (stance or otherwise) or face a target with a speed boost to get out of range.
So a warrior faces 4 threats; getting slowed (hex and/or condition), getting blind or facing a target that is protected or facing a target that can get away from him.

For all of these, he relies on his team to deal with.
-His team needs to help him with pressure so stances/speed boosts are used, so that when he arrives at a target they are on cooldown. That way he can generate adrenaline for the next rush.
-His team needs to apply enough pressure so other targets are protted instead of his target.
-His team needs to 'create' other threats so the he isnt controlled the entire match.
-His team needs to buy the monk time to remove the condition/hex and have enough energy to do so while healing.

The only thing he can do for himself, is remove blocking stances (cant be enchantments) trough wild blow. Removing speed stances is nearly impossible, as they use them when they see him comming to stay out of his range.

edit: and yes, normalyl life leeching necro's eat warriors for dinner. You however need to face one that brings more blood skills then just life leech like siphon and vampiric ones... and doesnt open using them, but uses them more on a healing basis then offensive (so the life-steal part isnt wasted).

sweet555 · Jun 22, 2009, 12:41 PM // 12:41

read plz... wars are powerful in gvg, which is a team based activity. obviously wars are squishy without proper support, but so are all the other classes. now these facts ive listed are relevant during gvg WHERE YOU HAVE A TEAM, not some bullcrap fort aspenwood thing. so i mean plz dont post if you havent gvged?

so all im saying is under the gvg condition, where you have a team, they are extremely powerful

Johny bravo · Jun 22, 2009, 12:51 PM // 12:51

I hate to say it but aren't all the overpowered warrior traits exactly what defines the class.
Warriors are front line fighters with high armor and high damage output.

Lets look at the disadvantages

Warriors are predictable as they have to be next to their target to cause damage or KD,

Unable to provide direct party wide support.

While KD's are nice with good monks they can be mitigated (Guardian for example)

Slow to get from one target to another - unlike casters or ranged classes warriors are the weak link when moving pressure from one squishy to another. While they do have many speed boosts it still takes more time to run to the next squishy then the tab to him.

So while you have many valid points on why the warrior is powerful as a front liner, he would be unable to perform any other kind of job on the team.

Magikarp · Jun 22, 2009, 12:52 PM // 12:52

In all practical situations, IMO, warriors have always been the most terrifying class to face (not sarcasm). I rather face three mediocre mesmers than one good warrior as a monk or rit.

sweet555 · Jun 22, 2009, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny bravo

Warriors are predictable

if your good, your not going to be predictable. you force monks to waste their energy while ur not using ur adren, so yeah sure they have to be next to the target, but your not suppose to be predicatble. if your monks prot a target a war is hitting on all the time, hes going to run out of energy and a whole team is going to wipe

Magikarp · Jun 22, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet555

if your good, your not going to be predictable. you force monks to waste their energy while ur not using ur adren, so yeah sure they have to be next to the target, but your not suppose to be predicatble. if your monks prot a target a war is hitting on all the time, hes going to run out of energy and a whole team is going to wipe

Qft. If anything, a good warrior is one of the MOST hard to predict. Every energy based melee class is very linear, and can be timed for the most part. Classes like ranger and paragon tend to unload as they recharge simply because their skills are good enough to warrant quick use. Casters generally have warm-ups and again, use their skills as they return to keep the offense/defense/support up at all times. Warriors lay back, watch movements, and unload right when people are needing that precious energy or last bit of health that his/her team helped him dwindle.

Bobby2 · Jun 22, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

So why post something that should be basic knowledge?

Revelations · Jun 22, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweet555

you can alleviate pressure off your entire team by impeding the attacks of opposing warriors. either through hard knockdowns (suggested) or putting damage on their wars (really not recommended)

The threat of having another warrior ready to unleash an evis/bodyblow the next time I frenzy is often enough to keep me from entering said stance unless I know my monks are fine. I'm not saying that pure damage is the best way to lineback, but it can be a big pain in the ass to a non hammer.

You also call linebacking kind of retarded. At times I would agree with you - I've seen warriors lineback an entire match, or when their monks are taking no pressure whatsoever. At other times it can prevent wipes when you need to pull back due to monks deep in high set. I'm slightly more of an arena player though, where linebacking can completely prevent a wipe if your monk is screaming at you for it.

TryingToVanquish · Jun 22, 2009, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Imo assassins are better than warriors. They can instantly use engery based attack chain, they can survive just as well when buffed, and have many good things as well. I'll quote faraaz on this,

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I'm too lazy to do the line by line quote thing so I will use asterisks to answer to your post point by point.

* Assassin attack chains are pretty reliable. Golden Fox Strike -> Wild Strike -> Death Blossom is a staple, first two hits are unblockable, removes block stances & has aoe damage. Clearly superior to warrior.

* Above mentioned chain has max recharge of 4 seconds, surely spammable even if blocked. Also, run in conjunction with Moebius strike, attack skills that are diverted or d-shotted are recharged if you have another dual available.

* Assasins dont need to knockdown. That is because they kill everything in 2-3 seconds...Warriors need to pressure, knockdown and all that crap because they cant kill as fast. Wounding Strike Crit Scythe sins are a classic example. Warriors with Scythes do significantly lower damage due to lack of crit hits with that massive base damage.

* Assassins are using a lot of cover enchants, such as way of the master, crit defences, prot spirit, strength of honor etc etc (although these arent used by the sin himself, they are used very regularly in most melee based teams), not to mention things like orders etc which are cover enchant fodder. On the other hand, I find stance based IAS to be very limiting.

* Warriors do NOT make better frontliners. prots really evens out the playing field, and Guild Wars IS a team based game, where you need to have a team based approach.

Feel free to dispute my point. I recognize your approach as one being held by a lot of players who favor warriors, but in the current meta, I believe that Assassins are superior to Warriors, when used correctly.

Thamior Shamus · Jun 22, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

If anything, I think a ranger is the most overpowered in GvG. They can interrupt, add alot of pressure, deal a good chunk of damage, unpredictable (where wars are. sorry but they have to chase a target to deal damage) and dont have to relay on there teammates as much. Theyre also amazing 1v1 and at base ganking. Also they can be harder to spike, 100 AL vs ele dmg and nat stride is good vs wars.

However, BA ranger + Shock Axe = Awesome gank team

Eragon Zarroc · Jun 22, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

wars are also easiest to shut down. blind, blurred vision, slowed attack speed, snares on movement speed, general kiting from them and running around. so yeah, they are powerful, but not in an unbalanced form. and if u go about nerfing a profession in general that has existed in this form from the beginning of the game, u will lose so much of a pvp player base that it wont even be funny.

Tenebrae · Jun 22, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Powerful (?) is the keyword. If "powerful" to you means good pressure by inflicting good damage and conditions yes , warrior is powerful in gvg. However there are many other factors that some ppl will consider more important that those things you consider "powerful" . Its easy to be "powerful" when part of your team make sure you can do your job.
Maybe the Warriors are the "sword" of a fighter and they rox , no doubt but remember that the "shield" is also very important.

Revelations · Jun 22, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

wars are also easiest to shut down. blind, blurred vision, slowed attack speed, snares on movement speed, general kiting from them and running around. so yeah, they are powerful, but not in an unbalanced form. and if u go about nerfing a profession in general that has existed in this form from the beginning of the game, u will lose so much of a pvp player base that it wont even be funny.

Of the three frontline professions, warriors are definitely the least prone to shutdown. Kiting doesn't matter shit when you have rush and can land a bull's. You can pretty much just continue kiting a derv and watch their attack rate drop to virtually nothing unless they change targets.

Assassins don't even need to be kited when not executing their chain. While executing said attack skills they are stupidly vulnerable to shutdown. A single block can ruin their chain and give them 20 seconds downtime OR MORE to think about it. Dshot can do even better, and it's virtually impossible to miss on an assassin running through his chain.

Warriors are also less prone to standard antimelee. Miss hexes are nowhere near as devastating to a warrior as they are landing halfway through an assassin chain for example. They slightly impede adrenaline gain, as opposed to impeding energy gain, AND killing off your chain. Warriors have bulls to help with snares, assassin's usually carry a shadowstep to break positioning. Dervs have to live with them. Stances are a problem to all three, unless running Whirling or wild blow/strike for warriors, dervs, or assassins respectively. However, warriors and dervishes have an advantage in that they can simply swap targets if a problematic stance pops.

Warriors also have more viable primary shutdown, a point not really covered in the OP. Dchop is a ridiculously powerful tool in many forms of pvp, arenas especially. Against anything but a good monk it's pretty easy to land it on WoH in a match, which is usually a decisive victory. If anything else is shutting you down? Easy, just dchop it. Dervishes and assassins simply have nothing to compare. This isn't even going near the amazing knocklocks that warriors are capable of pulling off with a stonefist.

vamp08 · Jun 22, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Saying warriors are overpowered in ANYTHING proves that you have not played a warrior class for more than 7 days.

I've played one for 4 years, we aren't overpowered in anything, period. The OP is an absolute fool for posting this BS.

NeoNXtoshiro · Jun 22, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by vamp08

Saying warriors are overpowered in ANYTHING proves that you have not played a warrior class for more than 7 days.

I've played one for 4 years, we aren't overpowered in anything, period. The OP is an absolute fool for posting this BS.

You are correct. I've been playing warrior since day 1. Warriors always get s*** on because most people think it's very easy to play one, which is why there are so many bad ones who only focus on their bar.

Lux Aeterna · Jun 22, 2009, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

The threat of having another warrior ready to unleash an evis/bodyblow the next time I frenzy

Wow, personally I wouldn't care at all about that, in fact I'd be glad if someone tried to spike me in frenzy because it meant they weren't doing something useful (ie, attacking someone who cares). The only exception is empathy and related hexes, or actual hammer linebacking (a devastating hammer hit is one of my favorite ways to make an opposing war get out of frenzy).

Basically warriors are like this: if you don't shut them down completely, they'll kill your shit and do it quickly - because of the huge amount of shutdown directed at them, people think they're weak,

Or: If I'm not blind 100% of the time I'll kill midliners right in front of their monk and do it flamboyantly.

I've had to start running antidote signet in RA because of 2-3 people attempting to maintain blind on me for whole rounds.

Bobby2 · Jun 22, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TryingToVanquish

Imo assassins are better than warriors. They can instantly use engery based attack chain, they can survive just as well when buffed, and have many good things as well. I'll quote faraaz on this,

Way to quote something pertaining to PvE in a PvP discussion

rofl